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June 17, 2004

Comments

Bostonian

It has been interesting to see how the press has used this report, taking it entirely out of context. The commission was asked to look in 9/11 specifically, not any and all connections between Iraq and Al Qaida. And the administration has never pointed the finger at Iraq for 9/11!

IceCold

You keep stipulating key, baseless distortions by the media, most notably that the commission's staff report in any way touched upon -- much less "weakened" -- an "already spotty" record of justifications for the Iraq war. Nothing in the report has come close to doing so. Nothing about the "record" on this is in the least "spotty." This is the whole ball game, and you just breeze by it. Odd, given how you skilfully zero in on particular elements in other respects.

From a purely legal perspective -- subsidiary as always in vital national security matters -- Iraq refused to provide required cooperation and documentation on its disposal of WMD stocks and programs, and intel analysis reasonably indicated it retained both. Iraq never complied. The question of WMD stocks remains unresolved -- but Iraq's non-compliance isn't in any doubt.

Iraq's status as an intolerable threat in the post-9/11 world didn't rest on any particular short-term intel matter of existing WMD stocks, but on its capabilities, resources, and proven behavior patterns. This was the heart of "justification" for war taking out the regime, and isn't affected in the slightest by this or that tidbit of intel info or estimate, and certainly not by off-topic and superficial commission staff reports.

John Cunningham

Consider relations between Hitler's Reich and the Japanese before and during WWII. They had a formal alliance [including Italy] but they shared virtually no operational plans, nor did they ever actually do joint operations. Japanese diplomats had no notice from Germany before the Western offensive in April 1940, nor any notice of Operation Barbarossa in 6/41. Similarly, the Japanese kept Hitler in the dark as far as their intentions in the fall of 1941. But Hitler and Tojo both had the same enemies.

lookha

icecold,
you said that "intel analysis reasonably indicated" that Iraq retained stocks and programs of WMD.
Powell himself declared not long ago that those "analysis" were inaccurate, incomplete, and, above all, wrong.
There was no WMD programs going on, no stocks of WMD, and no involvment with AlQaeda either[according now to this Commission].

"Iraq's status as an intolerable threat in the post-9/11 world didn't rest on any particular short-term intel matter of existing WMD stocks, but on its capabilities, resources, and proven behavior patterns."

Actually Iraq's status as a threat to the US national security rested too on stocks of WMD that Powell showed on this meeting at the Security Council. But these stocks never exhisted, nor its capabilities or resources to produce WMD have actually been proven.
And past behaviour patterns do not account as a threat to US national security but only prove that Saddam didn't obey to UN resolutions [as well as other States in the world but that's another issue].
Iraq was not a threat for US security, didn't possess WMD nor capabilities or programs to produce them, therefore. These are not "unsolved issues" but are facts.

lookha

BTW you can watch Powell presentation at the Security Council back to Feb 2003 here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030205-powell.v.html

athena

"Iraq was not a threat for US security, didn't possess WMD nor capabilities or programs to produce them, therefore. These are not "unsolved issues" but are facts."

Iraq posed a national security threat to the United States irregardless of WMD.

The two may be correlational, but they're not completely hinged upon one another.

Other variables include harboring terrorists and financial support of terrorism. Iraq was not a completely defensive strategy, which some people fault as illegitimate, but I think in many ways is brilliant. And really, it's not so much offensive strategy like "conquering nations" as it is protecting long term defense.

dauber

And, Icecold is right, the legal demands on Iraq were clear -- and had been since 1991. And they had continually violated them since 1991. That's why the continuation of the situation was intolerable from the perspective of both our deterrence posture and the UN's credibility. "Stop! or I'll say Stop again!" is not much of a posture on which to hinge a world order, or a national security structure.

But, Icecold, I wasn't trying to justify the war, just speak to what was in that particular article.

lookha

Athena, don't get me wrong, but consider Saddam a brilliant mind is a bit exaggerated.
Althoug Israel has been doing the same for the past 40 years, violating UN resolutions isn't such a brilliant idea or is it?
And let's remember that Saddam was installed in Iraq by the US for the Iran-Iraq war.
He wasn't such a brilliant mind after all, he just did what he was told and when he wanted more power just went the wrong way [invading Kuwait].
And for financing terrorism, I dare to suggest you this book, is quite accurate on the subject, and will give you a more correct perspective, I believe.

lookha

the book:
http://www.modernjihad.com/index_home.html

Chuck Werden

As is well documented, bin Laden wanted to war on Iraq, but the Saudis let the US do it, and on sacred soil, thus was Al Qaeda born. After 911, after Afghanistan, when Bush prepared for an attack on Iraq, bin Laden reached out quite publically to Iraq. Now that the US has made such a shambles of Iraq (not in liberating it, but in torturing, raping and killing guilty and innocent civilians), Al Qaeda is whole heartedly involved. No further proof is neccessary.

Dear Republican USA : It doesn't matter what your reasons for attacking Iraq were. You did it, and now Iraq (a formerly secular dictatorship) is part of the Jihad. You are making enemies. Your president is even making childish xenophobic remarks against France.

You are fighting a guerilla war with tanks, and they will come with more box cutters. Another 911 is guaranteed because of Iraq. It doesn't matter how you spin it to the US voters. You now must make sure no damn Cat Stevens gets into your precious country, and you are going to have to wait a long long long time before everybody forgets about this.

Spin is an ineffective weapon in assymetrical warfare.


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