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May 09, 2004

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» my lai from Gut Rumbles
I remember when the My Lai massacre occurred in Vietnam. I was in college at the time and I joined [Read More]

Comments

sligobob

Well, I suppose if Bush equals Hitler, then Abu Ghraib equals My Lai. Same mentality. Same depth of analysis.

Sean O'Hara

Rich isn't the first to make the My Lai comparison. During the House Armed Services hearing on Friday, Heather Wilson -- a Republican, no less -- opened by saying these pictures reminded her of it. Whether or not the analogy is apt, that it's being made in Congress by members of the President's own party is bad news.

joe

Yes, but I would say that the article covers culture and the politics of our culture, and so if Arts and Leisure encompases culture, then it fits. The examples you give are cultural assessments even if you disagree. Regarding whether or not death is the equivalent of torture, that may be a personal interpretation, where one person to the next puts those on different points on the scale of horror. For me, torturing people in the ways depicted in those photos is the equivalent of objectifying them to the point where they are no longer people, but objects. Take their souls, and you might as well kill them, because they are now forever condemned to a life of hell living with the intense pain and suffering in those memories. I see torture and murder as pretty close on the scale. Nitpic away on the distinction, but for those who've suffered that sort of torture, they may well self identify with death. And who are you, who have not suffered, to say that they are wrong?

JonofAtlanta

joe:
'.. take their souls, and you might as well kill them'

how do you know that:
1) their 'souls' were 'taken' ?
2) 'they are now forever condemned ...' ?

if they 'self identify with death' (whatever that means) maybe they'll kill themselves .. but maybe not -- a luxury of choices unavailable to the My Lai victims, not to mention probably close to 1 million Iraqis murdered by Saddam.

Face it,you don't know anymore about those poor little innocent Iraqi victims than does dear Frank 'No, No, Nanette' Rich.


Matthew Ryan

I would say that the article covers culture and the politics of our culture, and so if Arts and Leisure encompases culture, then it fits.

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By this logic the entire newspaper is "Arts and Leisure".

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I see torture and murder as pretty close on the scale. Nitpic away on the distinction, but for those who've suffered that sort of torture, they may well self identify with death. And who are you, who have not suffered, to say that they are wrong?

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Nitpick on this: you don't know what you are talking about. Who made you spokesperson for those that suffered? Actually, you'd be good for the job: anyone that can equate Abu Ghraib activities and death with a straight face would be a fine advocate for these souless people condemned to hell.

dauber

Who am I? I hate that logic. It's the argument of "authenticity." It means only women can truly know what it "feels like" to be at risk of domestic violence, or to confront the issues surrounding abortion, so, sorry men, your opinion isn't valid. Affirmative action? Only minority voices count. And on and on and on.

And with all due respect you write as if these abused folks are the victims of the most heinous tortures ever seen in behind the walls of Abu Ghraib in Saddam's day. It just ain't so. I may not have suffered THIS, and I thank God for that, but that doesn't mean that I haven't suffered -- don't presume to know me better than you do.

All pain is not the same, and all pain is not equal. Were they abused? Yes. Were they abused as badly as the lost souls tossed into plastic shredders? Please. Almost NONE of the Iraqis in these pictures had anything done of them that would have caused PHYSICAL PAIN much less life long pain, for God's sake. They were humiliated? It's shameful, it's awful, it's beneath us. They should be given compensation.

They're alive. I'm really not trying to belittle this, but come on -- they're alive. They will live to get past it. By definition. I just can't understand not seeing how that distinction is so fundamental -- how can there be any more fundamental distinction then alive and dead?

As to what's cultural and what isn't, I agree with Matthew. If this counts as "cultural" then the entire paper counts as "cultural." Besides -- the section isn't CALLED cultural, it's CALLED -- Arts and Leisure.

This ain't Arts, and it sure as hell ain't Leisure.

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